Beware – the interview over talker!

by K B , updated on November 10, 2020

This sounds counter intuitive. How can there be too much talk in interview? That’s what a good interview’s about, isn’t it? The answer to that question depends on who’s doing the talking. If you’re not doing any, and you’re interviewer is, then there’s potentially a problem. Because despite everything the interviewer talks about, they’ll never really tell you the answer to the one question you should have at this point- which is, should you actually take this job?

Let me give you a few live interview examples. Then I’ll tell how the job turned out.

Too much interview talk – example one

I once had an interview where I walked in and shook hands and said nothing from then on.  It was funny, before going in I was actually very nervous. It turns out I needn’t have worried about the interview. For an hour the interviewer talked. She talked about the organisation. She talked about the challenges of the job. She complained about the people who were currently in the job. She talked about herself. She glanced at my resume for exactly 3.5 seconds then she offered me the job. Foolishly I said yes.

Too much interview talk – example two

This one came after I had been through two behavioural interviews, and a series of aptitude tests. My soon to be boss took me through the call centre. He told me about that. We walked through the accounts department. He told me about that. We went into the training department. He told me about that. We went to the shop front. He told me about that. Then he told me about himself. And that was it. No questions about me. At this point, again, I accepted the job. The other interviewers had given me a reasonable run down of the role, but I did think it was strange that my potential boss didn’t seem interested in me.

Too much interview talk – example three

Tiffany Beames is the sister of a friend. I interviewed her for an article I wrote for the Australian – what interviews foretell? Tiffany said her interviewer talked  mainly about her star signs in interview and said it was great that Tiffany was a Virgo, because that made her hardworking and easy to manipulate. Tiffany took that job. She felt they were astrologically compatible.

What can you tell from too much talk from your interviewer?

The interview over talker in example 1 was actually a bully. Unbeknownst to me, she had sacked my two predecessors. She was so disorganised that she had only gotten around to interviewing someone, me, two days before she needed to. She offered the job of two people to me, one part -timer. Yes I know, alarm bells alarm bells, but I wanted the job.

The interview over talker in example 2 was a major company man. He’d started at 17, and at the age of 35, had never held another job. He just loved the company and would do whatever he could to promote it.

The interview over talker in example 3 turned out to be as disorganised on the job as she was in the interview. Tiffany lasted about 6 months. Unfortunately her astrological forecast didn’t predict that ending.

The common theme here is that there is no common theme, apart from one – desperation from the interviewer. All three interviewers needed to fill that position fast.

So what can you do when you’re faced with an over talker? An interview although often conversational, isn’t a conversation. You’re not really in a position to really interrupt a full on stream of consciousness as you may in other circumstances. But here are a few things to think about before you rush to say yes to the job.

–  While the interviewer may be judging you, you do need to ask, how are they assessing you? Do they really think you’d be a fit for the role, if you haven’t had a chance to speak? Nobody, no matter how stunning they are as a candidate, is good enough to be offered the job on the spot. Sorry, as flattering as it is to be so desirable. That’s a fact.

–  The flip side of this is that nobody is such a good judge of character that they can assess you on the spot. That’s also a fact.

–  Sometimes people talk too much when they are not comfortable around people. Again this seems counter intuitive. If you think about it, while they’re doing a lot of talking, they’re not doing a lot of asking, which means they cannot be questioned. Listening to you, may mean they have to change their view, that can be confronting to some people.

–  Sometimes people talk too much, when they’re not interested in you, possibly plain old fashioned self obsession. I think we’re all guilty of that. But perhaps in a boss, you’d like them to be interested in what you can contribute as an employee.

The most practical question of all to think about here is, why does the interviewer want to fill the job so quickly?

Get the interviewer started on that one question and it’s most likely you’ll get one long answer filled with food for thought!

Need to get ahead of the pack for your next interview?

Get our free e-book The 7 Deadly Sins to Avoid at Job Interview!

Deborah Barit wrote this book. She is one of Australia’s leading interview coaches.

To get your free e-book and some of our best interview tips direct to your inbox, simply click on this link.

Here’s what happy readers said about the e-book and interview tips:

“Deborah Barit is a very smart lady…She is good at figuring out what an employer is looking for. It’s like she has ESP, with her help in preparing, I found no surprises in a recent interview and I was prepared for every question….” Cathy, Leichhardt, NSW

“Because I read so many of your posts, I feel as if you were my personal employment coach. I start my new position in two weeks. I had so many obstacles to overcome and each day you posted a solution to my dilemma and how to improve my search. Thank you so much for your input and PLEASE continue to do what you do!”

Click here to get access to the e-book.

{ 7 comments }

Pathways – What Emma did next – part 3

by K B , updated on November 10, 2020

After actually enjoying my first school holidays as a fully fledged mummy, I’m back focussing on work stuff. Let me get you up to date.

The last time I was here, I still had not heard back about the job! Well, seven weeks or so after my interview, I decided to get proactive. I had a chat to a friend, who works in marketing, and he suggested sending another email to ‘the man’, as I like to call him. He advised me to send something like this:

“Dear Man,

I am assuming that the work opportunity with you has passed. I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for meeting with me and considering me for this role.

Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future for any copy writing needs.

Warm regards,

Me”

I only had to wait a day and ‘the man’ replied saying that I had indeed missed out on the role but he would perhaps use me in the future if anything came up!  While I was disappointed at this, I was so relieved that, I swear, the sun shone brighter that day. Seven weeks of not knowing is enough. The door is still slightly ajar with said ‘man’ and I felt it was important to be polite even though I was frustrated with his timing. I honestly didn’t know if I would have hired me. I’m pretty green at the moment. The funny thing is that I actually know the person who is working for them now and she is a fully fledged journalist, so I feel honoured to be put in the same basket as her.

Where to now? I have had some unpaid gigs come through from friends which keeps me busy and builds on my experience. I write a blog worddancing nearly ever day and there is talk of future projects towards the end of the year with a couple of contacts. It is a painfully slow process but I love what I do and I know I’m on the right track.

Another option is for me to do a short course in copy writing. This would give me more confidence in interviews and would help me to know how to present my work more professionally. I really think I need to invest in my career and get some advice from people in the industry. I am itching to get some paid work but I know that worthwhile things take time.

So, I will continue to put out the word, use my contacts and practice, practice, practice. I have profiles on linkedin.com, twitter, Facebook which I’m still learning how to use properly. The internet is something I need to and want to know more about. There are times when I think I should just get a local job and be done with it; times when just getting money in the bank is all that matters. But my vision is set and I’m determined to find a career that I can grow in and love. I just need to try all the doors, windows and skylights before I chuck in the towel.

I love being a mum, I love writing and I actually love the rocky path I’m walking, sometimes crawling down. It’s not easy being all things to all people but honestly, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

{ 0 comments }

Can’t find a job? It’s not all your fault!

by K B , updated on November 10, 2020

Many people come to me frustrated when they can’t find a job. They take it very personally. And so they should in many cases. It may mean their resume needs work, they annoy people on the phone, or they have put little thought into why someone should hire them.

Often, though, someone’s difficulty in finding a job is not about them. The recruitment systems many organisations have set up can actually make the odds stacked against job seekers. They make it hard to find out why someone should apply for a role, what the role is about and then put in a decent application. What is ironic in this scenario, is that many recruitment consultants and HR professionals will often complain about the poor quality of applications and resumes, without realising how hard their systems make it for people.

What I’m about to say is typical of what happens in a large corporation. OK it’s the worst case scenario. But all or some of what I say does happen. This is what goes on before an advertisement hits an online job board or a career site.

A job is born when someone leaves, someone gets promoted, there’s a restructure or the business grows. A line manager then gets approval to hire someone, and off they go. If they are new, they cast around for what to do. So they look up the intranet click on recruitment and call their HR or recruitment contact.

Typically HR/ recruitment are set up two ways. They may be “partnered up” with the business and offer coaching and consulting services, and help the line manager with their people issues. Or they may be an internal service provider of recruitment services. So they handle it all, just passing a person over, for the final interview. The internal specialist recruiter may be an employee of the organisation, or a specialist from an agency who works for the organisation within the organisation.

If the business is large the line manager may have never met their HR/internal recruitment consultant. They could be in another office, another state, or in some cases, not even in the country.

This all might sound fine. Many things can be done over email, skype, IM or over the phone. But face to face contact means something. It means that the HR /internal recruitment consultant can truly understand the business they support. They can get a feel for the “vibe” of the place. They can build up a better relationship with a line manager perhaps challenge them even, about what the manager requires.

But that may never happen. Everyone’s too busy. There’s not enough time or people for such personal contact. Instead the HR/ internal recruitment consultant gives the line manager a list of competencies that form the position description. HR’s put a lot of work into these. They’ve hired their own consultants, run a few “climate” or feedback surveys. They’ve worked hard to understand the culture of the organisation, the skills they need now, and the skills that will take the organisation into the future. They ask the business to hire around these, in fact, they often give a line manager very little choice.

The HR/internal recruitment consultant instructs the line manager to write an advertisement including all the competencies. You’ve probably seen these sorts of words: “supporting strategic direction”, “developing productive working relationships”, “demonstrating integrity and alignment with values”. These competencies sound pretty desirable, sexy even. But the problem is that the line manager doesn’t really understand how these competencies relate to the job at hand. If the HR/internal recruitment consultant hasn’t spent any time in the business they support, they have limited idea what’s really needed, only that this fits nicely into an HR culture agenda: recruit with the right values, and the rest of people management is so much easier.

The line manager writes the advertisement, including all the competencies they think they should. HR tweaks it, unchallenged and lists it on an online job board or their own site. Just for good measure, if they suspect it will be hard to fill, they farm it out to an agency or two. Typically if the organisation is large enough, they will have a preferred supplier panel. This is industry jargon for a select group of recruitment consultants who service the organisation.

Within the recruitment industry, these preferred supplier panel agreements are really not that popular. Often an agency is asked to compete on price. The lowest bid for the business often wins. The successful agencies on the panel may have sent their best sales people out to secure the organisation as a client, but after that, for many reasons, may have not actually visited the organisation again. The organisation may not even want the agency to visit. So the agency consultant is detached. But an agreement is an agreement the agency get to work and advertise the role under their banner. They put a junior consultant on the case as there is not that much money to be made. The big billers and sales people who may have secured the contract, who know what they are doing, are out securing clients, to make the real money.

This is where you come in. A job pops up on your email job alert. It kind of looks like a match to what you want to do, but there’s a long list of competencies, which you have no idea about how to address. You can’t relate them to the role. So you call the HR consultant, or recruitment agency, if there is a contact number, that is. Sometimes there is a very clear message, don’t call us, we’ll call you. If you are lucky and you get to speak to the consultant you contact, it is likely from this scenario that they don’t know much about the client, or the job at hand. So they refer you back to the website to apply for the role.

So what happens from here?  You can’t speak with anyone who knows anything to find out whether you should apply for the role. The message from what was a poorly put together job description in the first place, is further distorted. So you can’t put in a decent application. You’re three steps away from the line manager who could tell you what the job is about, but you have no idea who he or she is. It’s all very hands off. You send off your application, and receive an automated reply saying thank you, we’ll be in touch if you’re successful. And then you wait, and wait, and wait.

Sound familiar? I think so. This is the story I hear from my clients time and time again. This is why your struggle to find a job is not personal. The system means you can’t get to the heart of what’s required, and the organisation can’t see the heart in you.

If you are struggling to find a job, there are much better ways than putting yourself through this system. I’ll talk through some of these future posts.

In the meantime, happy hunting.

{ 6 comments }

Five tricks recruiters use to find you

by K B , updated on November 11, 2020

This guest post is brought to you by: Jorgen Sundberg aka The Undercover Recruiter

When called up by a recruiter, most people are baffled and have no idea how they were identified. The curious amongst us have to ask in order to avoid sleepless nights. When prompted, the headhunters are likely to say that you were recommended by somebody who “wants to remain anonymous but rest assured, they have only good things to say about you”. This is however rarely the case. Giving referrals of current colleagues without their permission is risky business and most people avoid doing this. Therefore the recruiter has most likely employed craftier techniques to find you.

The 5 main methods recruiters employ to find you:

1. Application

The obvious one, you send your resume out for a job you have seen posted on the recruiters website or a job board. The bad news is that in my 7 years experience of permanent recruitment, I rarely saw placements made from a direct application. Not sure whether this is because the wrong people apply or the recruiter not fully grasping what he or she is looking for.

2. Database

Recruiters will have your details on file if you have ever sprayed your CV out for whatever jobs (very easily done as most postings on job boards are from agencies). You will be on their database, thanks to their CRM software they should have a pretty good idea of what you do/did. But your contact details are likely to be out of date so it can take some time for a recruiter to track you down.

3. Social Media

LinkedIn and other networking sites are veritable goldmines for headhunters. Before the advent of such sites, they had to map out companies by slowly extracting information from every person they spoke to. Nowadays, most of your colleagues will be listed and all it takes for an industrious recruiter is to pick up the phone. Remember that by putting your details on LinkedIn, you have told the world what you do and you are fair game for headhunters.

4. Employee Lists

This happens less nowadays but still very useful for the resourceful recruiter. Sometimes a disgruntled former employee will offer a list of their colleagues, complete with mobile numbers, email and even home address details to the highest bidding recruitment agency. I have seen instances where entire teams have been ripped out of one company and put into another through the use of employee lists. If you are a manager (and you want to keep your team) you will want to ensure vital information like this is not readily available to download from your intranet.

5. Cover Story

This method is used when all else fails. The recruiter will call in to your company, pretending to be a client or a colleague from a different office and asking for the person that does your job. The sharp headhunter will single out a “soft target” such as the IT support guy or the canteen lady and lay on a cock and bull story as to why they need the information ASAP. Sometimes they get lucky but most of the time this will be a very time consuming exercise and may not lead to anything.

Conclusion

Don’t be offended by a recruiter using “creative” ways to find the right people. This practice is after all highly appreciated by their clients (who needs somebody to do their dirty work) as the CVs offered will be very different to that of their direct applicants. Remember that any recruiter can sift through applications from a job advertisement but only a few are good enough to pro-actively sniff out the best people in the market.

I would recommend you stay close to this recruiter as he or she is likely to be just as pro-active working with companies, thus ensuring they have the best vacancies for candidates like yourself.

Jorgen Sundberg is a Personal Branding Consultant based in London. He helps sales people, entrepreneurs, business owners and executives to create, build and promote magnetic brands to attract more business online.  After 7 years of marketing people in recruitment, he started Personal Branding UK and he blogs at The Undercover Recruiter and JorgenSundberg.net. You can connect with him on Twitter @jorgensundberg.

{ 12 comments }

How not to be boring in assessment centre presentations

by K B , updated on November 11, 2020

Top Tips for Assessment Centre Presentations

I’m not sure that I’m qualified to write anything about being boring, given I am writing this on a Friday evening when I really should be getting out. However I’ve had a few emails this week from people about graduate assessment centres. I’ve also noticed that over the last few weeks people have been Googling the terms NAB and Westpac assessment centres, and have hooked into the piece I wrote on how to behave (and behave yourself) in the graduate assessment centre group exercises.  For anyone who wants to read them, you’ll find them here.

Anyway, a couple of days ago I received an email from someone wanting tips on how to prepare for that mini-presentation that you’re often asked to do in an assessment centre, where you are given say 20 minutes to prepare, and say 10 minutes to deliver. My emailer wanted to know if he should read a prepared script.

The short answer is, please don’t. Here are a few long reasons why:

–  You only have 20 minutes to prepare. It takes a long time to write out a perfect script. If you do this, you won’t have enough time to read the material and pull out the pertinent points

–  You are being judged on your communication skills. Good communication requires eye contact to read the reactions of your audience and just to engage their attention. If they’re nodding off, you’ll want to do something to wake them up

–  Communication is a so much more than the words that you use. Your audience interprets much of what you say through your tone. If you read your script, you lose that tone

–  You will sound stilted and false. Nobody talks like they write

So what should you do?

I once interviewed the Head Master of a private boys’ boarding school about presentation skills, partly because I thought someone who can keep teenage boys awake mid morning must know their stuff. He suggested that you structure your presentation, with a “hook, book and took”. That is: tell the audience what you are going to tell them in a kind of catchy way; tell them; then tell them what you told them.

So unless you are asked in these exercises to deliver a written report along with the presentation, my tip would be make sure you fully understand the material, then just use some bullet points that you can refer to while you are talking.  That will stop you reading what you have written, and an assessor like me, nodding off.

My other big tip would be prepare and practice for a few days leading up. Pull out a report for example, prepare a summary then talk about it using bullet points and the structure I’ve described. Time yourself, so you are simulating the conditions of an assessment centre. Practice in front of a mirror if you need to or even scare your friends. It’s frightening, but it works.

Best of luck everyone.

{ 10 comments }

What the hell is an outcome?

by K B , updated on November 11, 2020

I am a humungous fan of Don Watson’s Dictionary of Weasel Words contemporary clichés, cant and management jargon. But I’m embarrassed to say, coming from an HR background, that I am guilty of this speak myself. My theory is that this language has evolved because many of us “buy in” (weasel word x 1) to the notion that a person’s performance can be “measurable”, and therefore manageable, (weasel word x 2). But because we can’t actually measure much of what we do, we slip into terms like “outcomes” (weasel word x 3).

I like using the word “outcome” when I’m not really sure what to say. I can sound like I’ve achieved something, but I can be vague about what.

Outcomes can include how well people meet their performance, learning, health or quality “objectives” (weasel word x 4). There are “performance outcomes,” “learning outcomes,”  “health outcomes” or “quality outcomes.”

Dipping into Watson’s Dictionary is like reading many of the job descriptions and advertisements that land on my desk. The language is impenetrable. Weasel words and phrases can make the most simple job sound sexy, if weasel is your thing.

Here’s a recent example:

“Respond and action stakeholder requests using multi-channel resources, to ensure timely and accurate service delivery to maintain compliance and achieve quality outcomes.”

This role is a customer service type role, I think. The clue is the word “stakeholder.” But this job could belong to a senior Customer Service Manager, who wants their team to email, tweet, visit, or call customers (The methods are the “multi-channel resources”). Or this job could also belong to a Call Centre Operator type, someone actually on the telephone, providing advice to customers.

Who would know?

Here’s one of Watson’s weasel word definitions you may not find on any job description:

Negative patient outcome:- “Bed sores, amputation, golden staph, etc. – death even”

(Sorry about the visual, I just needed to make a point.)

{ 16 comments }

← Previous Entries

Next Entries →